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Your thoughts on this??

 
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Kevin Darcy
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Joined: 08 May 2007
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Location: galway

PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Your thoughts on this?? Reply with quote

"Norik is valuable capital. Capital requires more capital to maintain, contrary to the statist myth that capital creates capital. As I said at the time the USAW burnt its bridges with the Vardanians, this $5000 was simply cost of doing business, the cost of developing capital. In short, it was very bad business to alienate Norik, and I assume his father. But, its symptomatic of the USAW not understanding its business, understanding lifters are their capital, and thus understanding loyalty to the individual producer, the athlete, is, if not paramount real damn close to it. And, its getting worse over the years, with the various athlete reps notably useless, silent, or perhaps other more justified explanations." Chris LeRoux

I find it interesting that he outlines lifters being the assets on which national federation exist and as such they should be maintained as best as possible.

Wondering what the thoughts of everybody in Irish weightlifting are on this matter??
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Weights_Admin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is only so many times a national association can take a 5000 hit to its finances due to lifters being popped for an illegal (recreational in this case I think it was) drug. I would describe a lifter that has been popped as a liability rather than an asset for the association. In this case the lifter was lucky he had dual citizenship.

So if Norik lied to his association about taking drugs the association get hits with a fine (when you get caught) but if it went to the courts and he lied about taking drugs (Marion Jones) he would have went to jail. Maybe that is too simplistic?
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Kevin Darcy
Kolecki's Understudy


Joined: 08 May 2007
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Location: galway

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pete,

It wasnt the drug issue I was focusing on. Of course lifters should not be taking drugs and any lifter that takes drugs is a liability to their federation.

What I was getting at was the point Chris makes about the athlete being capitol. I suppose this is evident in professional sports but does the same ring true in amatuer sports or are the athletes viewed as less important.

I mean this question in the greater context of sports, not specific to weightlifting.
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jimmyjennings
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:16 am    Post subject: your thoughts on this Reply with quote

I agree with Peter on the overall view. As regards whether athletes are capital or not is a philosophical issue and one which Chris would not appreciate or pretend to do so because he distains the Marxist view that we are all products of labour. The only thing which adheres an athlete or anyone else to a country is nationality or a deep respect for admittance and acceptence. This appears to be not the case here.
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Kevin Darcy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen, I appear to have made myself quite unclear.

Jimmy- I quoted this directly from a Chris LeRoux post on Go Heavy. I was just curious as to the idea that athletes were assets/capital as opposed to anything else.

For the record, I was absolutely not attempting to start a discussion on either drug use or switching countries as neither of these topics hold any interest of me personnally.

My question should perhps have read: from a business organisational standpoint, are athletes disposable labour or assets to be developed??
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jimmyjennings
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Your thoughts on this Reply with quote

I still say it's a philosophical question. However to respond to your poser I think that in the ideal world any sports body has two mail responsibilities, apart from running the show. One is to have a structure whereby current athletes are given the opportunity to develop their athletic abilities to the limit they set themselves. This must mean attention to the elite athletes but also encouragement for the "journeymen" who are often the backbone of any organisation.
Secondly a sports body should pay attention to the future to ensure that there is a pathway for young newcomers. Otherwise the sport will eventually die.

Overall it is fair to say that the elite athletes set the standard for others and any sports body should be mindful of this. At the end of his/her career an athlete should be able to say "I gave it my best shot" and my Association allowed me do this.

That's the ideal.
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Kevin Darcy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jimmy,

I completely agree with all of the points you have just made.

You are exactly correct and I very much like your ideal.

Kind regards,
Kevin
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Neil
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like what i've read so far, it has provided good food for thought;

As to athletes as capital.
To a certain extent this would hold true, but the very nature of the sport, and more importantly how it is perceived in a greater sense lends this attribute to the athlete.
An athlete is only capital (by which i suggest the definition - a means by which to generate funding or interest in the sport -) if and when they can generate sufficient media interest or sponsorship funding to provide this income.
Conversely they can bring in revenue indirectly, as their good actions and reputation, (or bad in some cases) bring the sport into the spotlight more, the sport will enjoy increased numbers, media coverage, sponsorship and therefore increased revenue flow, attention and desirability.

It is no secret that athletes in general are put under the spotlight more, they are the performers and do the obvious work that people come to see. They are viewed much more than the administrators, so they become the perceived ambassadors for the sport to the wider public, where the administrators remain ambassadors in their official capacities.

Anyway, without digressing too far from the main topic: What i would see here is that, the more media attention and money there is in the sport, the more the idiom of lifters as capital would hold true.
The relative distinction is that the greater the ability of the athlete to gain attention the greater their ability to bring interest.
The sport provides this platform, so a mostly unknown sport such as weightlifting in Ireland, which has a world Record holder in the guise of Lawrence McConnell, fails to generate the capital from said athlete. Even though on an international stage where the sport is well received he has a following of people.

We can all point to names of local footballers without having ever met them because the game itself affords this publicity.

To me this is a two way relationship.
The sport provides the platform for the athlete to excel. If the sport is well known the athlete becomes capital very quickly.
If the sport is unknown but generates success, then the more successful athletes that come through, the better the launch platform becomes until the point where it becomes like the already well known sports.

The ability or process whereby an athlete becomes capital would be dependent on the maturity, development and social standing of the sport wherein they find themselves.

The sport itself must build to a point where this is possible.

However, taking a wider definition as assets, then yes, all athletes are assets of the sport (with the exception of the criteria raised previously).
Without the athletes there is no sport, and they need to be nutured and helped in so much as the association can (Jimmy makes and excellent point on this so i will not go over old ground).

So, after that ramble;
My opinion would be simple - we are all assets needed by the sport to provide a stable, sustainable future, and Jimmy is quite correct, facilitated by the sport and the right people in the right positions.
As capital, that is more complex, as we first need the ability to be seen i.e. the notoriety of the sport, and secondly we need to have the personality, skill or preferably both to make best use of it, something that even some of the best athletes have thrust upon them and yet shy away from. Reducing their status as capital through no fault of their own only for their personality.

Feel free to comment
Neil
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Kevin Darcy
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Location: galway

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil,

I must applaud a very well thought out and well written viewpoint. In my opinion you hit the nail Directly on the head!!

I invite the other learned members of the association to voice their opinions on this?? You raise a lot of issues around publicity, who is our PRO for 2011??

Kind regards,
kevin
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