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Irish Weightlifting Progress (1991 - 2007)
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Eamonn Flanagan
85kg lifter


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Irish Weightlifting Progress (1991 - 2007) Reply with quote

Billy had sent me on the top 10 ranking list for the last 15 or 16 years. I put the numbers into a spreadsheet and graphed the average sinclair score of Irelands top 10 and top 3 male lifters for each year. the graphs are below. Thought it might get some discussion going on what kind of progress we are making, and what we should be aiming to achieve over the next few years.





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Kevin Darcy
Kolecki's Understudy


Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 256
Location: galway

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Initial thought is that Healy and Daly account for the peak in 2000. Who was third that year?

Also our top three havent progressed since 2000. This demonstrates to me that there a derth of underage structure. We need to get school age athletes involved in lifting.
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Eamonn Flanagan
85kg lifter


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: top 3 2000 Reply with quote

Daly wasnt in the top 10 in 2000. The top 10 was:

Wayne Healy 343
Kahlid King 310
Peter Stewart 289
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Kevin Darcy
Kolecki's Understudy


Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 256
Location: galway

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, well done Pete, top three for eight years and running, nice work!
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Weights_Admin
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 644
Location: N. Ireland or Arkansas

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That might not be correct, I left NI on a work visa in 2004 and could not find anywhere to train until recently. My first and only competition I think I gave Billy the results for was in Mar 2007 when I was in Powerhouse gym where I could not drop the weights so even then training was not optimal. I don't think in 2005 & 2006 I had results so that must have been some other people.

Still unsure if I will ever get 300+ Sinclair points again as this would require a squat snatch which I am having an extreme amount of trouble with. C&J is now beginning to progress so I currently see future competitions being a power snatch and a full clean and jerk.
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Kevin Darcy
Kolecki's Understudy


Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 256
Location: galway

PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TYou will there again Pete and further.
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Frank Murphy



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Cork

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just after reading throu' the graph representing the performance of lifters throughout the early to mid 90's. I'm trying to convince myself that this was a true reflection of the time, for example I can recall lifters such as Friel, Healy,Shakespear, Byrne, Doyle and a number of very good young lifters that had a big impact in relation to the Sinclair system. Is it possible that the
data used for generating the graphs be posted on the forum. Many thanks.
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Eamonn Flanagan
85kg lifter


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 348

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Rankings. Reply with quote

Frank, you could be right, I am just going off Billys top 10 rankings in the newsletters he has been sending out through the years. I have each of the years presented, so if you are wondering about any year in particular send me an email and I can send you on a scan of the year in question. How is training going for you?
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mikec



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: progress Reply with quote

Actually Frank has touched on something i am quiet curious about
namely what were the teams of the 80s- 90s lifting and if there was such or much of a difference to what made it different, was there a unified coaching scheme or program , did we have better athletes ? did they start earlier ? where are they now ?
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Frank Murphy



Joined: 05 May 2007
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Location: Cork

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree it would be interesting to make a scientific study of the data for the last 30-40 years. This would give us an overall idea of the system we have in place over the last while. In essence I think it would be a good study for the committe as it would yield a good idea to how things have progressed or perhaps how things haven't. Is there anybody in the committe that could take on this sort of work as it would make an interesting interjection in the 5 year roadmap. Jimmy do you have any thoughts on this?
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jimmyjennings
IAWLA Secretary


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: irish weightlifting progress 1991-2007 Reply with quote

To be honest the committe is too overwhelmed dealing with the here-and-now to spend time analysing the past, as interesting as it would be. Perhaps there are some old lifters out there who might like to take such a project on board.
I think that, if we can continue to increase the numbers of coaches, lifters and clubs, standards will inevitably improve. Numbers increase atmosphere and motivation. Knowledge about training, programming and recovery is better and more accessible than it ever has been.
The unfortunate thing about all the older lifters is that most of them have dropped out of the game completely and have given nothing back.
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cathal byrd
69kg lifter


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 439
Location: Limerick

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Jimmy is right. I don't think lifters in previous years used superior training methods, nor was there any superior coaching scheme. Also don't think that there were superior athletes back in 80's/90's. Our current crop are proving to be just as good if not better. One reason for the possible better results back then (as alluded to by Frank) may be simply that lifters had more time to train, or made more time to train. What with work and study commitments today and the cost of living it is hard to hold down a full-time training programme. But in my opinion today's lifters are doing extremely well and I can only see standards improving.

I would be interested in seeing the all-time top 10 sinclairs done by Irish weightlifters. Could give people some more motivation to keep training hard and improving. Anyone have these available??
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Frank Murphy



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Cork

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably it is a little academic to number crunch the results based on the sinclair system over the last number of decades. However, I think its worth mentioning that many of the lifters from the past like Sean Norris, Frank Rotfield etc had tough physical jobs and large families to raise. Thus I agree with Cathal that these people made their own time but on the other hand they had a large number of variables to play with. In addition their wasn't any real backup for instance international coaches support or any funding from the irish sports council etc. So it is very difficult to compare like against like.

What I can say with a degree of certainty is that many of the small clubs around the country that hosted weightlifting have died out. These clubs were the backbone to the grassroots for lifting throughtout the country and in most cases have been replaced by health gyms and the likes. To my awareness the only modern gym that supports weighlifting is UL. I think it would be great to replicate this standard to other large university gyms throughout the country. I think it is the only way to reach out to the younger people. I know the assosciation are investing alot of time on this in terms of running coaching schemes and educating members of staff in gyms to the benefits of weightlifting.
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Weights_Admin
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 644
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have posted the all time top 10 under Irish records section (http://weightlifting.informe.com/viewtopic.php?p=1618#1618) so people can view it easily in months to come when this particular post moves off the top.

As for other points on this discussion a lot of the lifters being mentioned actually had to compete at three different lifts (press, snatch and C&J) while also using the older technique of the split rather than the squat. They also used cast iron weights and quite often the facilities were not as good as today.

I would therefore say we are in a far better position to surpass their totals. I agree with points Cathal made such as work commitments as that has always been a large factor for me both at home where I had to cut back on lifting to finish a PhD and then moving to Little Rock where there were no established facilities.

The point about Universities is interesting and I would like to hear Cathal and/or Eamonns comments on this. At Queens I tried to start a club shortly before I left but it was not continued when I left as it has to be run by a student. Is this similar to UL? Also schools really should be where the focus is, our lifters are already at a disadvantage if they start lifting at University as top foreign lifters will have been lifting from early in their teenage years.
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cathal byrd
69kg lifter


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 439
Location: Limerick

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting that Pete. Would be intersted to know what formula was used and how our current top lifters compare.

As for your question re: universities, the UL Club will probably be student-less next year as myself, andy murphy and eamonn will be finishing up this year. However I would presume that we will still have and function as a 'club' as we will still be situated in Limerick and training in UL. Even though a lot of students do show an interest in the sport and frequently ask us questions and seem pretty impressed by us training they are still reluctent to pick up a barbell and actually get involved themselves. Don't really know why, possibly it's just much easier to do general 'resistance training' or stick with other mainstream sports...
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